DUST Search - Sticky:Hotfix Charlie

All Channels

Feedback/Requests

Sticky:Hotfix Charlie - Swarm Launchers

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 10 post(s)
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 114	Posted - 2014.07.24 18:18:00 - [1] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Hey guys So for Hotfix Charlie, Iwe're looking at changing Swarm Launchers. Primary focus on this is to reduce the difference in power between tiers. We're also slightly pulling back their damage at prototype levels to compensate for the increase in damage they had from their original incarnation when combined with Minmatar Commandos. Damage with a Minmatar Commando is still higher than old swarms without the damage bonus from the dropsuit. So, onto the numbers! Firstly, all swarm launchers at all tiers will now fire 4 missiles. Missile damage will now increase with tier. Damage is now 260/286/312 per missile. This has the double effect of eliminating any lingering issues with swarms being unable to break shield recharge and lessens the effects of physical impacts against dropships at higher levels. Additionally, Dropships are getting some buffs. This is not the full extent of changes we would want to make to dropships, so we may come back in the future and either reverse these or add more. This change also helps narrow the EHP gap between armor and shield dropships. All Caldari Dropships are getting 600 more base shield HP. All Gallente Dropships are getting 100 more base armor HP. At this stage there are no changes to the flight performance, lock on time or reload time to swarms. We are however increasing the base amount of ammo they carry from 6 to 10. (11 to 15 with max skills). Note that does does not affect the nanite cost for rearming from a nanohive. There is a spreadsheet we've been working with, but be warned, it's messy and confusing and prone to breaking. If you're brave, you can find it here. Please remember that like everything else, this isn't set in stone, and we're looking to hear your feedback on these proposed changes Very good, and finally, my python will actually not get instagibbed or get 3 shotted by forges... Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 115	Posted - 2014.07.24 18:31:00 - [2] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: I'm not speaking from my own experience but rather an Assault dropship pilot I know, and according to him Pythons are already better than Incubi. The extra HP they gain isn't worth the mobility loss at all, couple that with how the only AV that can reliably hit a dropship is anti armor and that Pythons get the best turret, and Incubi are already quite bad. The only good part is that they don't get knocked around as much from swarms but that's being reduced. This would seal the deal. Would also like to ask, is it really smart to reduce swarm damage AND increase dropship HP? In addition to reducing the amount of knockback they have? To me it just seems like an unnecessary buff, Assault dropships already kick major arse, and only need a slight ISK cost reduction. A good dropship pilot cannot be taken down 1v1. Edit: The Assault Dropship pilot is DUST Fiend. Every incubus has afterburnurs, doesn't get all wierd when hovering, looks better, and has constant regen... Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 115	Posted - 2014.07.24 18:32:00 - [3] - Quote Cheydinhal Guard wrote: I don't know about this. Maybe you should choose one first and see how it works out. Either nerf Swarms and keep the Hp the same, or leave swarms untouched and buff Dropship HP. As we learned in 1.7, buffing something and nerfing it's counter simultaneously isn't a good idea. Have you seen pythons get wrecked? Swarms wreck them, forges 3 shot them, and swarms are mainly used on tanks I think. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 115	Posted - 2014.07.24 19:57:00 - [4] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I'm not speaking from my own experience but rather an Assault dropship pilot I know, and according to him Pythons are already better than Incubi. The extra HP they gain isn't worth the mobility loss at all, couple that with how the only AV that can reliably hit a dropship is anti armor and that Pythons get the best turret, and Incubi are already quite bad. The only good part is that they don't get knocked around as much from swarms but that's being reduced. This would seal the deal. Would also like to ask, is it really smart to reduce swarm damage AND increase dropship HP? In addition to reducing the amount of knockback they have? To me it just seems like an unnecessary buff, Assault dropships already kick major arse, and only need a slight ISK cost reduction. A good dropship pilot cannot be taken down 1v1. Edit: The Assault Dropship pilot is DUST Fiend. Every incubus has afterburnurs, doesn't get all wierd when hovering, looks better, and has constant regen... I told that to Fiend, apparently Pythons are still faster than an Incubus with an afterbrurner. Well that is just a damm lie Whoever is giving you this info is bullshitting you. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 115	Posted - 2014.07.24 19:59:00 - [5] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Have you seen pythons get wrecked? Swarms wreck them, forges 3 shot them, and swarms are mainly used on tanks I think. It's rather difficult though to actually land three shots with a FG considering with a nitro you can zoom away enough that you only have to tank the second shot, but alright. Not everyone uses afterburner on a python, which makes it weaker than a armor lav and weak as a shield lav, and I 3 shot pythons easy because I'm good. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 115	Posted - 2014.07.24 20:00:00 - [6] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Killar-12 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I'm not speaking from my own experience but rather an Assault dropship pilot I know, and according to him Pythons are already better than Incubi. The extra HP they gain isn't worth the mobility loss at all, couple that with how the only AV that can reliably hit a dropship is anti armor and that Pythons get the best turret, and Incubi are already quite bad. The only good part is that they don't get knocked around as much from swarms but that's being reduced. This would seal the deal. Would also like to ask, is it really smart to reduce swarm damage AND increase dropship HP? In addition to reducing the amount of knockback they have? To me it just seems like an unnecessary buff, Assault dropships already kick major arse, and only need a slight ISK cost reduction. A good dropship pilot cannot be taken down 1v1. Edit: The Assault Dropship pilot is DUST Fiend. I agree Nerf Pythons, flies away in Incubus DUST fiend can keep doing whatever, Incubuses tank is better than pythons' gank When it comes to dropships, speed tank is best tank. No amount of tank you can get will allow you to survive for more than a few volleys. So the Python's higher speed and agility makes it ideal. Uh huh, while every incubus fitting has afterburner and it's more stable. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 115	Posted - 2014.07.24 23:06:00 - [7] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Edit: would it be possible to instead add a second high to the Incubus and an additional high to the python with a suitable increase to pg/cpu? This would allow pilots an extra slot for their afterburner without having to sacrifice their survivability for it, or allow them to tank some additional eHP. http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/147/f/3/we__ll_bang__okay__by_emeraldyuna123-d5190ya.jpg Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 118	Posted - 2014.07.25 01:28:00 - [8] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: I like the new changes(SL user since Crome with prof ) The std will actually be usable and the advanced looks pretty good, it's a shame the Proto had to lose some dmg but if it's for balance I can understand. Now can we make assault swarms less useless? Maybe give them 10 missiles per volley with lower dmg? Or just lower the dmg and give them a longer range then current SLs. Also, why buff base health for Assault dropships? It seems...unneeded, that's just my opinion. Ever use a python? Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 118	Posted - 2014.07.25 01:56:00 - [9] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: I like the new changes(SL user since Crome with prof ) The std will actually be usable and the advanced looks pretty good, it's a shame the Proto had to lose some dmg but if it's for balance I can understand. Now can we make assault swarms less useless? Maybe give them 10 missiles per volley with lower dmg? Or just lower the dmg and give them a longer range then current SLs. Also, why buff base health for Assault dropships? It seems...unneeded, that's just my opinion. Ever use a python? I did ask for the reason for the buff. I have yet to take a python out by myself with swarms, and I can do it if I land 3-4 with my Proto assault FG. If I team up with someone they go down quick. Well, I 3 shot pythons all day, forges. And your swarms shouldn't be super effective at killing a shuekd vehicle. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 141	Posted - 2014.07.29 02:26:00 - [10] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: Listen. Guys. I understand. You two are really trying hard to help put this game on the right track. You've done a mostly good job at that. A few faults, that in standard CCP mantra you refuse to admit was a mistake, but the vast majority of what has been done was good. Now you're busy. We've all been there. You've got deadlines. You've been staying at work late. You're exhausted. You need just a small little pick-me-up to get you through the day. You drink your coffee, but that stopped helping weeks ago. The guys above you are experience the same thing, someone comes in with a solution. Just a small amount of coke, just a bump. That's the invigoration you need to get all this work done. But I think you two have had enough. Just look at yourselves. Increasing dropship HP? How much crack have you had? Because it has needed to be a Rockso amount to make these changes sound like a good idea. Give it a few days, sober up, and wise up. Dropships do not need more HP. If you want to equalize them then drop the HP on the ships. You're listening to these crybaby, insolent vehicle pilots again. Without Swarm Launcher, Plasma Cannon, and Forge Gun range increasing out to 500m those things are just gunboats floating in the air. Your uninformed opinion is discarded, you have not flown a python, or a ship, and you can't aim while being hit. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.

JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 141	Posted - 2014.07.29 02:28:00 - [11] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Same crap again. Pilots cry they can't stay in an area all day so you give them more HP and nerf swarms again. Ah yes, because getting hit and being unable to aim is fair, getting e shotted by a forge is fair, we have to drop lowish to see people....breach forge is just stupid vs dropships... Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 141	Posted - 2014.07.29 02:44:00 - [12] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: Sir Dukey wrote: I can tell if a weapon is protoype just by looking at it. I cannot tell the difference between ADV and STD. Considering how the 3rd Person Model for the weapons all have the same color, I'm willing to bet that this is a lie. Nah bro its like I can tell what tier of Small Turrets a player is using just by sniffing them.... I can sense cloaked people by using a detection spell. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 141	Posted - 2014.07.29 02:48:00 - [13] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Your uninformed opinion is discarded, you have not flown a python, or a ship, and you can't aim while being hit. You're the reason we need people that are actually good at the game to help CCP balance the game. Not just a bunch of little self-entitled children that want everything that they use to be the absolute best. Kid, I've been piloting dropships since before your date of creation. Closed beta vet scrub, used a ads day 1. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 141	Posted - 2014.07.29 02:49:00 - [14] - Quote Atiim wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Same crap again. Pilots cry they can't stay in an area all day so you give them more HP and nerf swarms again. Ah yes, because getting hit and being unable to aim is fair, getting e shotted by a forge is fair, we have to drop lowish to see people....breach forge is just stupid vs dropships... Considering how your evasion time is only (at most) 1s longer than that FG's charge time, yes it's very fair. Not sure why you believe you should have both High HP, DPS, RoF, and M/S. While heavies get dps, rof, ehp, and speed with lav... Getting 3 shotted is op, it's not that hard to aim 3 hits, no python has ever killed me while forging, which isn't fair, as he must flee immediately or die....and if 2 people use a forge and don't suck, you have a 90% mortality rate. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 141	Posted - 2014.07.29 03:00:00 - [15] - Quote Atiim wrote: JRleo jr wrote: While heavies get dps, rof, ehp, and speed with lav... That is another problem within itself. JRleo jr wrote: Getting 3 shotted is op, it's not that hard to aim 3 hits, no python has ever killed me while forging, which isn't fair, as he must flee immediately or die....and if 2 people use a forge and don't suck, you have a 90% mortality rate. 2v1 Engagements are null when discussing balance, and from my experience with piloting Pythons the first and second shots may connect (if the FGer is good), but with my maneuvering (and common sense) the 3rd will never connect. If getting 3HK'd is OP, then the Small Missile & 20GJ Railgun Turrets need a serious nerf. Infantry costs less, and is harder to get to than a big ass ship in the sky. And a python should win 1v1 a infantry av from a realistic view. Big ship that has its main tank that resists the av people use, or an infantry with a handheld gun...really I always wondered... Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 141	Posted - 2014.07.29 04:41:00 - [16] - Quote medomai grey wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Cass Caul wrote: Listen. Guys. I understand. You two are really trying hard to help put this game on the right track. You've done a mostly good job at that. A few faults, that in standard CCP mantra you refuse to admit was a mistake, but the vast majority of what has been done was good. Now you're busy. We've all been there. You've got deadlines. You've been staying at work late. You're exhausted. You need just a small little pick-me-up to get you through the day. You drink your coffee, but that stopped helping weeks ago. The guys above you are experience the same thing, someone comes in with a solution. Just a small amount of coke, just a bump. That's the invigoration you need to get all this work done. But I think you two have had enough. Just look at yourselves. Increasing dropship HP? How much crack have you had? Because it has needed to be a Rockso amount to make these changes sound like a good idea. Give it a few days, sober up, and wise up. Dropships do not need more HP. If you want to equalize them then drop the HP on the ships. You're listening to these crybaby, insolent vehicle pilots again. Without Swarm Launcher, Plasma Cannon, and Forge Gun range increasing out to 500m those things are just gunboats floating in the air. Your uninformed opinion is discarded, you have not flown a python, or a ship, and you can't aim while being hit. I have flown a python, and even I don't get the ADS EHP buff. Crack reference may have gone too far though. Whaat? Haven't you ever been instakilled because your 2550 hp wasn't enough? Or got 3 shotted? Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 141	Posted - 2014.07.29 04:41:00 - [17] - Quote Atiim wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Infantry costs less, and is harder to get to than a big ass ship in the sky. Not after Hotfix Charlie reduces the ADS' price. Though ISK/AUR/SP/LP are not valid arguments when engaging in balance discussions. JRleo jr wrote: And a python should win 1v1 a infantry av from a realistic view. From a realistic view, a Python being hit from a single Swarm volley should be instantly killed without the ability to 'bail', and a Forge Gun (aka kinetic slug powered by a capacitor traveling at 1200m/s) should cause the Python to vaporize[/i] JRleo jr wrote: Big ship that has its main tank that resists the av people use, or an infantry with a handheld gun...really I always wondered... Your comparison is incomplete, it should be: Big ship with: Superior DPS Superior HP Superior Movement Speed Superior Evasion Capabilities Superior Ammunition Capacity Superior Kills per Ammunition Capacity Superior Anti-infantry Capabilities Superior Anti-Vehicle Capabilities Superior Movement Capabilities Superior TTK or Infantry with Handheld gun Yet an infantry forger will always win 1v1 assuming it's not mlt. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 141	Posted - 2014.07.29 04:48:00 - [18] - Quote Atiim wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Yet an infantry forger will always win 1v1 assuming it's not mlt. If you get killed by AV, it's because you made the decision to remain in the area as opposed to evading. That is in no way a problem. I'm saying a python can never win a 1v1, that's all, which is unbalanced. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 142	Posted - 2014.07.29 05:34:00 - [19] - Quote medomai grey wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Whaat? Haven't you ever been instakilled because your 2550 hp wasn't enough? Or got 3 shotted? I've been instant killed by well coordinated players, damage focused red-line tanks equipped large rail turret, and downed in 3 shots. Still not a good reason to increase ADS health. ADS are one of the most mobile things a player can control in game. Able to engage and disengage at the pilot's discretion. Increasing the ADS's EHP while maintaining it's current mobility would increase ADS's survivability to ridiculous levels. This would not be fair to AV users whose goal is to protect their team and interests from us, ADS pilots. ADS must remain fragile. as they currently are. PS: You've never 1v1 a forge gunner before and won? I have just it's not really possible when they have so much hp in say pc, and I drive away pythons and incubi in 1 shot from my forge, so...... Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 143	Posted - 2014.07.29 17:33:00 - [20] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: JRleo jr wrote: medomai grey wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Whaat? Haven't you ever been instakilled because your 2550 hp wasn't enough? Or got 3 shotted? I've been instant killed by well coordinated players, damage focused red-line tanks equipped large rail turret, and downed in 3 shots. Still not a good reason to increase ADS health. ADS are one of the most mobile things a player can control in game. Able to engage and disengage at the pilot's discretion. Increasing the ADS's EHP while maintaining it's current mobility would increase ADS's survivability to ridiculous levels. This would not be fair to AV users whose goal is to protect their team and interests from us, ADS pilots. ADS must remain fragile. as they currently are. PS: You've never 1v1 a forge gunner before and won? I have just it's not really possible when they have so much hp in say pc, and I drive away pythons and incubi in 1 shot from my forge, so...... So....what? Because a weapon that is designed to destroy a vehicle works its OP? Sniper can down most medium frames in 2-3 hits is that OP? That's harder to hi infantry than a big ship in the sky Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.

JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 143	Posted - 2014.07.29 17:35:00 - [21] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Atiim wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Infantry costs less, and is harder to get to than a big ass ship in the sky. Not after Hotfix Charlie reduces the ADS' price. Though ISK/AUR/SP/LP are not valid arguments when engaging in balance discussions. JRleo jr wrote: And a python should win 1v1 a infantry av from a realistic view. From a realistic view, a Python being hit from a single Swarm volley should be instantly killed without the ability to 'bail', and a Forge Gun (aka kinetic slug powered by a capacitor traveling at 1200m/s) should cause the Python to vaporize[/i] JRleo jr wrote: Big ship that has its main tank that resists the av people use, or an infantry with a handheld gun...really I always wondered... Your comparison is incomplete, it should be: Big ship with: Superior DPS Superior HP Superior Movement Speed Superior Evasion Capabilities Superior Ammunition Capacity Superior Kills per Ammunition Capacity Superior Anti-infantry Capabilities Superior Anti-Vehicle Capabilities Superior Movement Capabilities Superior TTK or Infantry with Handheld gun Yet an infantry forger will always win 1v1 assuming it's not mlt. You clearly have alot to learn when if comes to piloting dropships. I can win a Gùå Forge 1v1 Gùå Swarmer 1v1 Gùå Plasma Cannon 16v1 I have even managed to pull a Swarm Launcher 5v1 before, you are a very fast very mobile dropship, stop hovering infront of a guy and expect him to just die. [/quote] Ah, the noobs who can't read or understand anything and assume... Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 143	Posted - 2014.07.29 17:36:00 - [22] - Quote Stile451 wrote: If ADS were balanced based on PC they would never be destroyed in pub matches. 1. Who cares about pubs 2. That just means they are underpowered in an competitive environment then, which it shouldn't be, it shoukd kinda be balanced around people who have an iq over 2. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 143	Posted - 2014.07.29 17:44:00 - [23] - Quote Atiim wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Stile451 wrote: If ADS were balanced based on PC they would never be destroyed in pub matches. 1. Who cares about pubs 2. That just means they are underpowered in an competitive environment then, which it shouldn't be, it shoukd kinda be balanced around people who have an iq over 2. 1.) 99% of the DUST 514 community. 2.) Balance in general implies efficiency at a 1:1 ratio, which is indeed possible in both game-modes. If that's the case, why does every python I face with my forge never win? It's more like a 0.7:1 or so ratio. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 143	Posted - 2014.07.29 17:50:00 - [24] - Quote Atiim wrote: JRleo jr wrote: If that's the case, why does every python I face with my forge never win? This is anecdotal, and obviously fabricated. But if I had to guess, it's because they're terrible pilots. 99% of enemy pythons will never 1v1 me, I either 3 shot them, they flee, or get knocked around and can't kill me. It isn't balanced at all... And I've destroyed pythons using an afterburner doing some twisting, I guess I'm good with a forge... Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 143	Posted - 2014.07.29 18:03:00 - [25] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: JRleo jr wrote: If that's the case, why does every python I face with my forge never win? If Forge Guns are the big threat, why are we discussing Swarm nerfs? Only proto is getting nerfed, slightly. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 143	Posted - 2014.07.29 19:28:00 - [26] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: JRleo jr wrote: If that's the case, why does every python I face with my forge never win? If Forge Guns are the big threat, why are we discussing Swarm nerfs? Only proto is getting nerfed, slightly. Did you see the "Destructive Data Mining" results? What does that tell you about the need to nerf Swarms. We should be discussing reasonable ways to make them better. Not worse. I see you go off people using them. I barely see any vehicles anymore. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 143	Posted - 2014.07.29 19:46:00 - [27] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: JRleo jr wrote: I see you go off people using them. I very, very rarely use mine. - Proficiency 5 Use a scout? Damage mods and cloak+nano=pwnage. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 143	Posted - 2014.07.29 20:22:00 - [28] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: JRleo jr wrote: I see you go off people using them. I very, very rarely use mine. - Proficiency 5 Use a scout? Damage mods and cloak+nano=pwnage. 1. Yes. Gal and Cal. 2. Good for popping militia vehicles; need REs or a partner for non-militia HAV; need 1-2 partners to pop ADS. Assumes semi-conscious pilot. 3. Define pwnage and how it relates to swarms vs ADS. They stay, they die, or they have to flee because of the power and loss of the ability to aim. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 143	Posted - 2014.07.29 20:55:00 - [29] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: 3. Define pwnage and how it relates to swarms vs ADS. They stay, they die, or they have to flee because of the power and loss of the ability to aim. Yes. My experience has been the same, though 9.5/10 times they readily escape. That's not what I understood "pwnage" to mean, but I'll take it. I suspect that such "pwnage" falls short of necessitating a nerf. Oh relax, it's just proto and it's a lockon weapon... Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 145	Posted - 2014.07.29 23:00:00 - [30] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Oh relax, it's just proto and it's a lockon weapon... Nice narrative. Anyone care to add to this? Experience tells us that swarms are crap. The "Expert Challenge" tells us that swarms are crap. Usage statistics likely tell us that swarms are crap. Let's make swarms less crappy. Let's start by notnerfing them. No vehicles are there to kill. Swarms shouldn't be that powerful in the first place. Imagine if we had a locking forge... Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.

JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 147	Posted - 2014.07.30 01:58:00 - [31] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: [ Protofits is merely a vessel for my point, if you don't believe the numbers feel free to post your own with workimgs and prove otherwise. You should expect pretty much every python to fall to your Incubus, your railgun will have a much higher DPS than his missile turret. The incubus is purposefully designed to be better at Anti-Vehicle. From my own experience as pilot, dropships are pretty much balanced, the only necessary changes are the operation of swarms and prehaps plasma cannons. You have to remember a few certain things as a pilot. 1) You are not a Gunship - Your role is not to rain death from above 2) You have passenger seats - They are there for a reason. Provided you don't fly straight into AV infested areas your dropship already has plenty of survivability. As my fitting shows you can get a python to nearly 7,000 shields for 24 seconds, which will take nearly 10 volleys to get through. Then you still have a shield boster to rep most of it back. Pythons shouldn't regularly be fitting over 3,000 shields but as we are about to see in charlie this all too possible. Now even if I agreed with the proposed dropship buff, I, would, still, argue the Incubus needs more than just 100 extra armour, 300 at the least. The python risks over shadowing the Incubus entirely simply because of the innate abilities of shields. The python fit shown has the highest EHP achievable while still maintaing a decent rep rate. Meanwhile the python can achieve this. Shields: 2986 (3586 - In charlie) Armour: 950 This will out perform the Incubus in tank by 300ehp and will still have passively built in regen, and still be more manouverable, and still have a greater resistance profile. 600 is far too much, especially when they are only giving armour +100 AND 1) They are reducing the price 2) They are nerfing Proto Swarms 3) They are nerfing Swarms + Minmando It's too much too quickly, it's not goning to balance an already balanced vehicle it's going to overpower them. Oh wow..... ADSers campaigned this hard to build Skytanks..... Quite frankly I found ADS to be fairly balanced. They'd wreck my vehicles with impunity, and annihilate infantry with the same build. But now with increased EHP....... good lord. The ADSpocalypse has begun. Hail Judge the first of the 4 Droppshippers of the End Times! My python has 2555 shields and forges completely destroy them. Swarms do good damage to pythons even at adv. Python has needed some slrt of hp buff for a long time. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 148	Posted - 2014.07.30 02:10:00 - [32] - Quote edomai grey wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: JRleo jr wrote: medomai grey wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Whaat? Haven't you ever been instakilled because your 2550 hp wasn't enough? Or got 3 shotted? I have just it's not really possible when they have so much hp in say pc, and I drive away pythons and incubi in 1 shot from my forge, so...... So....what? Because a weapon that is designed to destroy a vehicle works its OP? Sniper can down most medium frames in 2-3 hits is that OP? That's harder to hi infantry than a big ship in the sky Regardless of how difficult it is, its the same principle. You cannot complain a weapon that is designed to kill you works just because its 'difficult' have you ever tried to hit a DS with swarms that has pilot that knows what they are doing? Its hard becuase that 3rd volley isn't going to hit it. Because he was forced to run away...just because they run doesn't mean it's underpowered... Eh, whatever stupid quote system... Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 148	Posted - 2014.07.30 02:18:00 - [33] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: I m not saying its under powered, im saying the balance is fine. Try using a hardener on that python and see how much punishment you can take from swarms. 5-6 volleys and you can still just fly off. It doesnt insta kill you, and you have plenty of time to fly off behind a building to recover. I want to know why you think swarms are OP, because they really aren't. you think I believe swarms are op? Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 148	Posted - 2014.07.30 02:21:00 - [34] - Quote emm kay wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: All Caldari Dropships are getting 600 more base shield HP. All Gallente Dropships are getting 100 more base armor HP. w00t w00t 600 more python HP to work with! ( seriously though this will be not affect dropship warfare whatsoever) what WILL affect dropship warfare: make the dropship scanner not discriminate in the Y range (give it scans from infinite height) and nerf the forge gun and the afterburner. Erm, what? Nerf the forge? But WHAT ABOUT THE QQ! Think of the qq man... Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 148	Posted - 2014.07.30 02:52:00 - [35] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Atiim wrote: Your comparison is incomplete, it should be: Big ship with: Superior DPS Superior HP Superior Movement Speed Superior Evasion Capabilities Superior Ammunition Capacity Superior Kills per Ammunition Capacity Superior Anti-infantry Capabilities Superior Anti-Vehicle Capabilities Superior Movement Capabilities Superior TTK or Infantry with Handheld gun Yet an infantry forger will always win 1v1 assuming it's not mlt. You clearly have alot to learn when if comes to piloting dropships. I can win a Gùå Forge 1v1 [ADV regularly, even Proto if Terrain allows] Gùå Swarmer 1v1 [ADV regularly, rarely Proto] Gùå Plasma Cannon 16v1 [Proto] I have even managed to pull a Swarm Launcher 5v1 before, you are a very fast very mobile dropship, stop hovering infront of a guy and expect him to just die. Ah, the noobs who can't read or understand anything and assume... Aah sorry shall I uhh make it clearer? In my experience, I win or make pythons flee 99% of the time. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 148	Posted - 2014.07.30 03:32:00 - [36] - Quote True Adamance wrote: JRleo jr wrote: True Adamance wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: [ Protofits is merely a vessel for my point, if you don't believe the numbers feel free to post your own with workimgs and prove otherwise. You should expect pretty much every python to fall to your Incubus, your railgun will have a much higher DPS than his missile turret. The incubus is purposefully designed to be better at Anti-Vehicle. From my own experience as pilot, dropships are pretty much balanced, the only necessary changes are the operation of swarms and prehaps plasma cannons. You have to remember a few certain things as a pilot. 1) You are not a Gunship - Your role is not to rain death from above 2) You have passenger seats - They are there for a reason. Provided you don't fly straight into AV infested areas your dropship already has plenty of survivability. As my fitting shows you can get a python to nearly 7,000 shields for 24 seconds, which will take nearly 10 volleys to get through. Then you still have a shield boster to rep most of it back. Pythons shouldn't regularly be fitting over 3,000 shields but as we are about to see in charlie this all too possible. Now even if I agreed with the proposed dropship buff, I, would, still, argue the Incubus needs more than just 100 extra armour, 300 at the least. The python risks over shadowing the Incubus entirely simply because of the innate abilities of shields. The python fit shown has the highest EHP achievable while still maintaing a decent rep rate. Meanwhile the python can achieve this. Shields: 2986 (3586 - In charlie) Armour: 950 This will out perform the Incubus in tank by 300ehp and will still have passively built in regen, and still be more manouverable, and still have a greater resistance profile. 600 is far too much, especially when they are only giving armour +100 AND 1) They are reducing the price 2) They are nerfing Proto Swarms by a tiny amount 3) They are buffing std and adv Swarms + nerfing Minmando with swarms It's too much too quickly, it's not goning to balance an already balanced vehicle it's going to overpower them. Oh wow..... ADSers campaigned this hard to build Skytanks..... Quite frankly I found ADS to be fairly balanced. They'd wreck my vehicles with impunity, and annihilate infantry with the same build. But now with increased EHP....... good lord. The ADSpocalypse has begun. Hail Judge the first of the 4 Droppshippers of the End Times! My python has 2555 shields and forges completely destroy them. Swarms do good damage to pythons even at adv. Python has needed some sort of hp buff for a long time. Incubus needs more pg to fit a non pathetic rep with non pathetic hp, before we could have 100 reps now it's...tiny. And it is impossible for pythons to destroy good incubus pilots. It's impossible for me to destroy either as well. Get good??? Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 148	Posted - 2014.07.30 03:34:00 - [37] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Yet an infantry forger will always win 1v1 assuming it's not mlt. Ah, the noobs who can't read or understand anything and assume... Aah sorry shall I uhh make it clearer? In my experience, I win or make pythons flee 99% of the time. Congratulations, you got the circumstantial evidence award. Circumstantial Evidence: indirect evidence (evidence providing only a basis for inference about the fact in dispute) So now allow me to make my own circumstantial evidence. In my experience I kill the AVer 99.5% of the time. Your point is now moot. If you wish to provide more than conjecture and crying please use the maths. It's available for a reason. No one is crying here, exept the AV's who want to solo everything in a heartbeat apparently. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 148	Posted - 2014.07.30 03:54:00 - [38] - Quote mollerz wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Get good??? Get real? the problem is the game math won't let you be gud. But you DGAF. So while you cling to your unrealistic position, I hope you get run over with nerf wagon because you didn't take the time to think about a real game positive solution. What's thier to think about? Proto swarms won't completely leave a python unable to aim or survive much because fewer missiles, and the incubus, well I haven't used one in ages so I don't know how much faster they get pwnd...and then thier is a buff to std and adv. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 148	Posted - 2014.07.30 04:39:00 - [39] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: JRleo jr wrote: No one is crying here, exept the AV's who want to solo everything in a heartbeat apparently. You're doing an excellent job speaking on behalf of Dropship pilots. Please, keep up the good work. Judge Rhad - Get this man a medal. Ok look at it this way....full tanking fits on the python won't be mandatory to survive decently. And of course adv and std swarms are getting a much needed buff... Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 148	Posted - 2014.07.30 10:31:00 - [40] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Ah, the noobs who can't read or understand anything and assume... In my experience, I win or make pythons flee 99% of the time. Congratulations, you got the circumstantial evidence award. Circumstantial Evidence: indirect evidence (evidence providing only a basis for inference about the fact in dispute) So now allow me to make my own circumstantial evidence. In my experience I kill the AVer 99.5% of the time. Your point is now moot. If you wish to provide more than conjecture and crying please use the maths. It's available for a reason. No one is crying here, exept the AV's who want to solo everything in a heartbeat apparently. No yet your sit here complaining and whining, without using imperical mathematical evidence to prove your opinion. Your stating an opinion, then using the opinion as argument for your opinion. AV is quite happy with Dropship balance against them as it is right now. We aren't even all that bothered by the nerf at Proto Level, but 600 extra shields is too much and we have the maths to back it up. No, it's fine. Go use a python vs non mlt team, see how quickly your hp drops before you try to run, see how much hp % is dropped when you are hardened, for 30 seconds with a long cooldown...seriously I've played all day jsing a python, many time I'd get into armor right when I'm fleeing, stupid forgers...killed some of them but still...and I spent a while waiting for my hardener and booster to try to kill forgers again... Haven't used a proper incubus in awhile so idk.... In order to get any regen I had to have 2.4k armor, and I use hardeners, or used to get good regen with 2.8k hp...do you know how fast it could die? Pretty fast if I recall correctly. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.

JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 148	Posted - 2014.07.30 10:33:00 - [41] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Cyrus Grevare wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Dont pay attention to protofits,if anything it shows a false view of air to air combat especialyy as it currently stands. if i encounter any Python with less than 3K shiels i will definitely engage in my Incubus and will most likley kill it if it doesn't run away especially with just an ADV turret. With the 600 more shields It wont be OP it will have a fighting chance. Can I bother you on a more detailed opinion on how to accomplish a 'true view' for air combat, so far I just try to be true to the stats shown in game, but maybe there's another way You make it sound like I'm trying to show things with an agenda. Best thing to do would be to strap yourself in an incubus with a rail turret and go hunting. With adv rails and incubus level three i can take out Vipers in one pass, myrons without having to reload and if i get the drop on a python i can usually take it down to armor before he starts to panic and run. It has zero to do with the kind of turret the python pilot is running, i fly a ship speciffically to kill other (specifficaly shield tanked) ships. Yes the python can dance but the incubs can as well, i have had little issue keeping up with pythons as these maps are incredibly small for flying in the first place. The harsh truth of it is all ADS will fit an afterburner on becuase our first course of action when engaged by AV or other vehicles is to get out of harms way. Pythons have to sacrifice alot of HP where the incubs does not. So giving them the equivalent of a shield extender is adding balance, not making them OP. So giving a Shield based dropship an EHP similar to an Armour based dropship. Then giving Gùå Passive BUILT-IN Regen Gùå Greater Speed/Acceleration/Manoeuvrability? But floats randomly and is annoying to get to stay still enough Gùå Better Damage/Resistance profile, eh This is the problem with a lot of people on the forums, your personal experience counts for nought. Sure you might think Pythons are easy to kill right now, but there will be just as many people who have the opposite opinion. Use the numbers, if the Python were underpowered, the numbers would show it. They do not. I fixed it for you, to what it actually is. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 148	Posted - 2014.07.30 10:37:00 - [42] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: JRleo jr wrote: No one is crying here, exept the AV's who want to solo everything in a heartbeat apparently. You're doing an excellent job speaking on behalf of Dropship pilots. Please, keep up the good work. Judge Rhad - Get this man a medal. Ok look at it this way....full tanking fits on the python won't be mandatory to survive decently. And of course adv and std swarms are getting a much needed buff... How about a 40m lock on range buff? Or something? So full tanking fits won't be necessary on a python. Yet they will still be necessary on an Incubus? Fantastic. And PRO is getting nerfed, which when combined with a nearly 40% ehp boost, is going to be overpowered. More experience I was paying attention to today Proto swarms would almost (as in basically butnot instantly) wreck my pthon, and I mean wreck it, proto is only getting a tiny nerf and std and adv is getting a buff, so there's that. Maybe have ccp give a 40m lock on range buff? Also, every incubus has an afterburner so there's that. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 151	Posted - 2014.07.30 20:35:00 - [43] - Quote Atiim wrote: JRleo jr wrote: I believe swarms don't do 100% damage to incubi, so that needs fixing. The only weapons in this game that deals 100% Damage are Nova Knives. Swarm Launchers are Explosive Weapons, and as such deal 120% to armor (Incubi) and 80% to shields (Python). This is working as intended That's not what I meant, Swarms don't do full damage to incubi I believe it's somewhere like 55%/80%, I don't remember Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 153	Posted - 2014.07.30 21:15:00 - [44] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Atiim wrote: JRleo jr wrote: The only weapons in this game that deals 100% Damage are Nova Knives. Swarm Launchers are Explosive Weapons, and as such deal 120% to armor (Incubi) and 80% to shields (Python). This is working as intended That's not what I meant, Swarms don't do full damage to incubi I believe it's somewhere like 55%/80%, I don't remember That was fixed in Hotfix Bravo. Dalmont Legrand wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Alright, so latest update We're dropping the health increase on shield dropships to 500HP, and dropping any extra armour for the armour dropships entirely. Missile damage is staying the same for now, but I will add that light weapon damage mods are getting a buff to 3/5/7% in Charlie. Hopefully this should address some concerns somewhat, but we'll be keeping an eye on Swarm Launchers and give them more (or less) love in Delta as is needed. what is needed is missile speed, dmg mods are dmg mods they will just decrease slightly ttk Depending on how Swarms are looking after Hotfix Charlie, we'll look at how we want to adjust missile flight characteristics to make swarms vs dropships more engaging for both parties beyond "lock, fire, hit" or "lock, fire, AB". All I remember was python getting fixed, unless I'm mistaken. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 158	Posted - 2014.07.31 03:04:00 - [45] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Alright, so latest update We're dropping the health increase on shield dropships to 500HP, and dropping any extra armour for the armour dropships entirely. Missile damage is staying the same as was stated in the first post, but I will add that light weapon damage mods are getting a buff to 3/5/7% in Charlie. Hopefully this should address some concerns somewhat, but we'll be keeping an eye on Swarm Launchers and give them more (or less) love in Delta as is needed. What? After every OP fit your still givung pythons a +30% ehp boost? Leave drop ship buffs till later, please for the love of god, trust me on this point! Erm, no thank you. I spent a whole day testing the python, and have had past experiences with myrons, they need it, does the incubus ever need a enhanced 120mm armor plate just to survive? No. When you get hit, you have to run, so I don't see the problem here...even with a hardener you can't stay for as long as you think. And a build without a shield booster is bad, as once you are in armor, you're screwed, because the pythons shield depleted delay is pretty high. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 158	Posted - 2014.07.31 03:05:00 - [46] - Quote Atiim wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Alright, so latest update We're dropping the health increase on shield dropships to 500HP, and dropping any extra armour for the armour dropships entirely. Missile damage is staying the same as was stated in the first post, but I will add that light weapon damage mods are getting a buff to 3/5/7% in Charlie. Hopefully this should address some concerns somewhat, but we'll be keeping an eye on Swarm Launchers and give them more (or less) love in Delta as is needed. A 500HP buff on Shield Dropships is still far too high. Even if the Damage Modifiers were changed to 3/5/7%, this would still be an unnecessary nerf to the Swarm Launcher. If your plans are to nerf Swarm Launchers to correlate with the Damage Modifier changes, then it'd need to be a 2% nerf to remain consistent with the possible damage increase. They are only nerfing proto slightly, but are buffing std and adv launchers, so swarms aren't being nerfed. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 158	Posted - 2014.07.31 03:12:00 - [47] - Quote Atiim wrote: JRleo jr wrote: They are only nerfing proto slightly, but are buffing std and adv launchers, so swarms aren't being nerfed. And why have none of you proposed a 40m lock on range buff? The term 'nerf' is defined as a reduction in efficency in one or more attributes to an item. Definiteively, yes Swarm Launchers are being nerfed. Furthermore, the "well they're buffing STD/ADV swarms too" argument is null because the Absolute Swarm Launcher damage (the highest amount of damage possible with a SL) is being reduced. If the best version of an item available is ineffective, then the changes to lower tiers will be irrelevant because they'll be ineffective as well. Anything else? The slight nerf proto is getting is hardly going to make it ineffective, and not to mention tanks were already nerfed directly and indirectly, less blaster accuracy and armor rep nerf with hardener nerf, and proto swarms already make dropships run ever since the damage profile fix. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 158	Posted - 2014.07.31 03:14:00 - [48] - Quote Atiim wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Erm, no thank you. I spent a whole day testing the python, and have had past experiences with myrons, they need it, May I see the video and statistics behind this conclusion, or are we trying to use invalid anecdotes again? How about you go out in the field against proto av and tell me how much % of your hp is taken? And pythons have to fit a heavy advanced extender just to survive, hardly fair. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 158	Posted - 2014.07.31 03:17:00 - [49] - Quote Atiim wrote: JRleo jr wrote: How about you go out in the field against proto av and tell me how much % of your hp is taken? And pythons have to fit a heavy advanced extender just to survive, hardly fair. All a Python has to fit to survive is an Afterburner of any tier. I don't see how that's unfair though. Every item in the game (be they HAV, LAV, or Dropsuit) has to fit defensive modules (such as an Armor Plate or Shield Extender) if they want to increase their survivability, so I fail to see why DSs should be any different. If a python fits and ab, he has the survivalbility of an lav, which is 2 shotted by swarms. And no vehicle has to fit a heavy hp mod to survive, exept shields. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 158	Posted - 2014.07.31 03:20:00 - [50] - Quote Atiim wrote: JRleo jr wrote: The slight nerf proto is getting is hardly going to make it ineffective, and nit to mention tanks were already nerfed, and proto swarms already make dropships run ever since the damage profile fix. HAVs were nerfed to make SLs effective, so that point is null. Swarm Launchers are supposed to make Dropships run (or die if they stay). Something with both high speeds & DPS should not enjoy the benefits of high eHP and/or standing power. When the hp buff comes, I'll still run, but I will have more hp for my hardener when I get hit by something I can see until it hits, unless im right near a swarm or forger, and it will allow me to be able to flee from a double forge attack right away when I'm on cooldown, or a breach forge that takes my shields to 300, I'd get 1 shotted at that point. Have you ever been surprised by two forgers before? 3 shots and your dead, now it will be 4 shots, enough time to run away if you're surprised. Also, have you ever used a myron before? It's a flying coffin. So please, tell me, how is 500 shield hp bad? Maybe now I can use a light extender and put a side turret since all my pg and cpu won't be taken by my hp mod. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.

JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 158	Posted - 2014.07.31 03:28:00 - [51] - Quote Atiim wrote: JRleo jr wrote: If a python fits and ab, he has the survivalbility of an lav, which is 2 shotted by swarms. And no vehicle has to fit a heavy hp mod to survive, exept shields. This fitting says otherwise. It can survive an entire clip, which is pretty generous considering how you can evade well before the Swarmer even reloads, and assuming your competent the 3rd Swarm will never even hit you. Exept no hardener, no shield boost, incredibly weak, and once ykur shields are gone, which they will be at least twice, if you aren't boring anf fkee 300m after every hit, you pray you can't be hit for 12 seconds, trust me, that fit is weak. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 158	Posted - 2014.07.31 03:36:00 - [52] - Quote iKILLu osborne wrote: i run both av and pythons and i can easily say the ehp buff is needed however dps for splash damage on missile turrets need a decrease, i have performed aerial strikes w/o aiming and easily net 2 to 3 kills per volley. I'm sorry, I atopped reading right there, they have a small 2.5m splash radius, and only the python has dps, and you probably killed mlt suits, as they go down in 2 or 3 shots. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 158	Posted - 2014.07.31 03:48:00 - [53] - Quote Atiim wrote: JRleo jr wrote: When the hp buff comes, I'll still run, but I will have more hp for my hardener when I get hit by something I can see until it hits, unless im right near a swarm or forger, and it will allow me to be able to flee from a double forge attack right away when I'm on cooldown, or a breach forge that takes my shields to 300, I'd get 1 shotted at that point. Have you ever been surprised by two forgers before? 3 shots and your dead, now it will be 4 shots, enough time to run away if you're surprised. Also, have you ever used a myron before? It's a flying coffin. So please, tell me, how is 500 shield hp bad? Maybe now I can use a light extender and put a side turret since all my pg and cpu won't be taken by my hp mod. I took the liberty of crossing out items that have no relevance in a Swarm Launcher balance discussion. Though for the sake of entertaining your obvious lack of education, I'll address those points. You already have plenty of time to run away from a Forge Gun, even if your caught off guard. A Python, can evade a FGer's range in 2.6s. Considering how the charge time of a Forge Gun rests at 4s, this is plenty of time to escape. Though if two players work together to bring down a target, it should die. 1. The way the python is, it takes awhile for it to start moving. 2. 2 people shouldn't be able to instakill a vehicke as most of the time, they come out of nowhere and most pythons don't use an ab, after this change it will stop instakills, and make side turrets viable 500HP is bad because it will allow Pythons to 'tank' a substantial amount of HP (according to Monkey MAC's calculations, 9.7k eHP, which is twice as much as an HAV), while still having the best speed, maneuverability, and damage in the game. that, right there, is either bull, or 24s of 9k isn't that much or idk, and ccp wanted hardeners to be able to allow a vehicle take decent damage and stay for a short while, with a long cooldown It effectively removes the sacrifice in operating a Python. And lastly, pythons will still be a tad weak, as 500 hp won't make it super tankable... Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 158	Posted - 2014.07.31 03:52:00 - [54] - Quote iKILLu osborne wrote: he is right 500 is not that much and is needed. Also, please be aware atiim we are talking about myrons too. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 158	Posted - 2014.07.31 03:55:00 - [55] - Quote Also, atiim, please don't expect swarms to work for every vehicle and do high dps too...I mean we have the forge...swarms can't be the best av option... Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 158	Posted - 2014.07.31 03:58:00 - [56] - Quote iKILLu osborne wrote: JRleo jr wrote: iKILLu osborne wrote: he is right 500 is not that much and is needed. Also, please be aware atiim we are talking about myrons too. no in my opinion myrons should be removed i see too many derpers with them using small missile to farm kills instead of making a more substantial purchase to do it (ads) What's wrong with myrons? Slow rof missiles that only gunners can use and it's a slow ship. And atiim, before you say swarms can't be used to kill infantry, use a sidearm or commando. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 158	Posted - 2014.07.31 04:13:00 - [57] - Quote iKILLu osborne wrote: JRleo jr wrote: iKILLu osborne wrote: JRleo jr wrote: iKILLu osborne wrote: he is right 500 is not that much and is needed. Also, please be aware atiim we are talking about myrons too. no in my opinion myrons should be removed i see too many derpers with them using small missile to farm kills instead of making a more substantial purchase to do it (ads) What's wrong with myrons? Slow rof missiles that only gunners can use and it's a slow ship. And atiim, before you say swarms can't be used to kill infantry, use a sidearm or commando. the fact that is at most a 120k investment and if used by the right hands can garnish a lot of kills as it is now it is low risk high reward Exelt they rely on gunner that can be shot out of a smal ship, and lol as if isk like that matters? Only because without gunners it is useless. And they don't get a +50, only thier gunners do. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 158	Posted - 2014.07.31 04:27:00 - [58] - Quote Atiim wrote: @JRleo jr The Afterburner grants a 150% bonus to Acceleration, not to mention that a Python begins flight the moment R1 is held down, so this is null. 2 Players removing themselves from a primary engagement to deal with another, should have guarranteed success assuming that they're midly competent. if a Python with 1 player can survive more than one player, it's broken. A 500HP buff means that a Python can have 4807 HP, which is more than an HAV (do I need to go into detail as to why that's broken)? It literally takes 2.6s to get out of a 300m range with a Python (assuming your 0m away from AV), which is well below the charge time of a Forge Gun. Swarm Launchers are an Anti-Vehicle weapon, and as such should be effective against vehicles. A Forge Gunner can expect his/her weapon to be effective against all vehicles, and the same can be said of Python users w/Missiles, and Incubi users w/Railguns. That argument is hypocritical, and null. Swarm Launchers can't be used against Infantry, and the argument of using a secondary (such as an SMG) is null because then you are assessing the SMG, not the Swarm Launcher. Though this has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Aand? If you want more powerful av, use a forge, that's why thier is heavier av otherwise don't expect super effective av, although, swarms need more lock on range. It's L1 to move, not R1 facehoof It takes more than 2.6s to move 300m if you're not moving too much, the 500 hp won't break a thing and my gunlogi has 5.3k shields, or 3.9k shields with a shield booster, heavy, and has 1.2k armor, while my python will have 3k shields with a small booster, and 900 armor, seems balanced to me, as those shields can go down fast to proper av. And lastly, the small missiles cannot kill an incubus, and can barely kill an armor ship with an ab, or any ship with an ab. And pythons have to sacrifice thier fit to use an ab. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 158	Posted - 2014.07.31 04:36:00 - [59] - Quote Jace Silencerwolf wrote: lol ok forge guns knock any dropship around even more on ads. I have seen (i have done this as well) a militia forge hit an ads into a build killing it instant. logibro could you please give the swarms 225 meters lock on I get into a nice spot and a ads, tank or dropship can sitting at 180 meters kill me and I can not even fire back at least 200 meters lockon. I know 350 was way too much but 175 is a joke. 225 is not much but at least I can shoot back at an ads, tank or dropship. I agree with a swarm lock on range buff. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 158	Posted - 2014.07.31 05:12:00 - [60] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Shield dropships do not need any HP buffs, and why no one can see this is beyond me. Not only are they faster that and more maneuverabl Lol. Every incbus has an ab, and doesn't float annoyingly when trying to stay still. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.

JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 158	Posted - 2014.07.31 08:50:00 - [61] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Shield dropships do not need any HP buffs, and why no one can see this is beyond me. Not only are they faster that and more maneuverabl Lol. Every incbus has an ab, and doesn't float annoyingly when trying to stay still. But it turns slower and doesnt have as much acceleration and the bulk of its HP takes extra damage from swarms. When I use an incubus it feels faster and much more stable...while the python has problems staying still, ab needs a high slot...and feels like it's just slower in general. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 159	Posted - 2014.07.31 20:44:00 - [62] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Hey guys So for Hotfix Charlie, we're looking at changing Swarm Launchers. Primary focus on this is to reduce the difference in power between tiers. We're also slightly pulling back their damage at prototype levels to compensate for the increase in damage they had from their original incarnation when combined with Minmatar Commandos. Damage with a Minmatar Commando is still higher than old swarms without the damage bonus from the dropsuit. Difference at most between current prototype damage and new prototype damage is less than 100 damage (2x Complex Damage Mods, Minmatar Commando, max skills). Standard and Advanced both have an increase in base damage. So, onto the numbers! Firstly, all swarm launchers at all tiers will now fire 4 missiles. Missile damage will now increase with tier. Damage is now 260/286/312 per missile. This has the double effect of eliminating any lingering issues with swarms being unable to break shield recharge and lessens the effects of physical impacts against dropships at higher levels. Additionally, Dropships are getting some buffs. This is not the full extent of changes we would want to make to dropships, so we may come back in the future and either reverse these or add more. This change also helps narrow the EHP gap between armor and shield dropships. All Caldari Dropships are getting 600 more base shield HP. All Gallente Dropships are getting 100 more base armor HP. At this stage there are no changes to the flight performance, lock on time or reload time to swarms. We are however increasing the base amount of ammo they carry from 6 to 10. (11 to 15 with max skills). Note that does does not affect the nanite cost for rearming from a nanohive. There is a spreadsheet we've been working with, but be warned, it's messy and confusing and prone to breaking. If you're brave, you can find it here. Please remember that like everything else, this isn't set in stone, and we're looking to hear your feedback on these proposed changes cant help but feel after swarms get buffed again PLC is going to be the red headed stepchild once more... Can you Address/balance PLC again after swarms.. some issues are.. ammo amount 1+5 seems low for a dumb fire non lock-on weapon.. maybe 1+6 to 1+8 before ammo skills would be better. the arc of trajectory is a bit too steep reload speed probably better on assault suits with reload speed but havnt tested there yet as i use plc with ar on commando speed of which the projectile travels i think it needs to be doubled.. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 159	Posted - 2014.07.31 20:48:00 - [63] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Atiim wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Erm, no thank you. I spent a whole day testing the python, and have had past experiences with myrons, they need it, May I see the video and statistics behind this conclusion, or are we trying to use invalid anecdotes again? How about you go out in the field against proto av and tell me how much % of your hp is taken? And pythons have to fit a heavy advanced extender just to survive, hardly fair. I did, yes you do need an extender to stand upto AV I would find difficult to believe they would give vehicles that are survivable with purely their base eHP that would be overpowered to then give them the further option of fitting more eHP. I have tested both and from my opinion both need something other than a straight eHP buff. The most survivable fits I found Python 1x ADV Heavy Shield Extender 1x STD Shield Hardener 1x STD Light Shield Booster 1x PRO PG Expansion Unit 1x ADV AT-1 Missile Launcher Shields: 2555 Armour: 950 Survivability: 4 Shots - PRO Swarm Launcher Survivability (Including Shield Booster) 5 Shots - PRO Swarm Launcher Survivability (Including Shield Hardener) 9 Shots - PRO Swarm Launcher Survivability (Including Shield Hardener + Shield Booster) 12 Shots - PRO Swarm Launcher With this fit I was free to rain terror from the skies, provided I activated my Hardener at the correct time only a Breach Forge gun would drop my eHP significantly enough for me to even bother using any form of evasive manoeuvres. With relevant skills my hardener often lasted much longer than was necessary. Of the matches I played with this fit, only one of them actually required me to bug out from the airspace before my hardener ran out. I also bypassed the longer cooldown of the standard modules by ensuring I always had 2 fits in lieu, In total I lost just one of these dropships to a large Missile Turret who ganked me before I could react to the threat. Incubus Shields: 950 Armour: 2747 1x Afterburner 1x STD Armour Hardener 1x PRO Heavy Armour Repairer 1x ADV 60mm Armour Plates 1x ADV Particle Cannon Railgun Survivability: 3 Shots - PRO Swarm Launcher Survivabilty: (Including Armour Repair) 4 Shots - PRO Swarm Launcher Survivability:(Including Armour Hardener) 5 Shots - PRO Swarm Launcher Survivability:(Including Armour Hardener + Armour Repairer) 7 Shots - Pro Swarm Launcher This is the most survivable fit I could make with the Incubus, the lack of powergrid on a powergrid heavy tank was extremely limiting. Even without the hardener the best I could achieve was 6 Shots from a proto swarm launcher, even with 130 HP/s repair rate. The hardener effectively juiced up the repairers ability to rep through damage, turning the Incubus into a Active Tanker. The extra up time also meant I had the opportunity to stay longer. However the lack of survivability meant that as soon as I was hit by a PRO Swarm Launcher I would have to start making preparations to leave the area. I spent a lot of time with this dropship at below 60% health making very susceptible to a forge gunner or rail turret. In total I lost 3 of these dropships, 1 to another missile turret. 1 to a forge gun, who shot me while I was engaging a Swarmer and a damage modded railgun. It is worth pointing out that the python would have been equally susceptible to the railgun turret. Conclusion: Python is absolutely fine, if you actually use the shield hardener (it is there for a reason), you will find the lower numbers of the shields to be more than sufficent. The Incubus on the other hand is actually worse of by comparison while it may be able make better passive builds (with no active modules) the survivability simply doesn't stack up. The both dropships would instea benefit from a Powergrid buff in order to allow them to fit better modules, equivalent to an Advanced Powergrid Expansion Unit. Well, on my incubus I never needed hp mods...and wow 4 shots is uh....pretty low for a vehicle especially vs lock on, hate to see 2 swarms, and a 24s hardener is just annoying, who thought it was a good idea to make long cooldown short duration? Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 161	Posted - 2014.08.01 01:23:00 - [64] - Quote Monkey MAC Monkey MAC wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Atiim wrote: [quote=JRleo jr wrote: May I see the video and statistics behind this conclusion, or are we trying to use invalid anecdotes again? How about you go out in the field against proto av and tell me how much % of your hp is taken? And pythons have to fit a heavy advanced extender just to survive, hardly fair. I did, yes you do need an extender to stand upto AV I would find difficult to believe they would give vehicles that are survivable with purely their base eHP that would be overpowered to then give them the further option of fitting more eHP. I have tested both and from my opinion both need something other than a straight eHP buff. The most survivable fits I found Python 1x ADV Heavy Shield Extender 1x STD Shield Hardener 1x STD Light Shield Booster 1x PRO PG Expansion Unit 1x ADV AT-1 Missile Launcher Shields: 2555 Armour: 950 Survivability: 4 Shots - PRO Swarm Launcher Survivability (Including Shield Booster) 5 Shots - PRO Swarm Launcher Survivability (Including Shield Hardener) 9 Shots - PRO Swarm Launcher Survivability (Including Shield Hardener + Shield Booster) 12 Shots - PRO Swarm Launcher With this fit I was free to rain terror from the skies, provided I activated my Hardener at the correct time only a Breach Forge gun would drop my eHP significantly enough for me to even bother using any form of evasive manoeuvres. With relevant skills my hardener often lasted much longer than was necessary. Of the matches I played with this fit, only one of them actually required me to bug out from the airspace before my hardener ran out. I also bypassed the longer cooldown of the standard modules by ensuring I always had 2 fits in lieu, In total I lost just one of these dropships to a large Missile Turret who ganked me before I could react to the threat. Incubus Shields: 950 Armour: 2747 1x Afterburner 1x STD Armour Hardener 1x PRO Heavy Armour Repairer 1x ADV 60mm Armour Plates 1x ADV Particle Cannon Railgun Survivability: 3 Shots - PRO Swarm Launcher Survivabilty: (Including Armour Repair) 4 Shots - PRO Swarm Launcher Survivability:(Including Armour Hardener) 5 Shots - PRO Swarm Launcher Survivability:(Including Armour Hardener + Armour Repairer) 7 Shots - Pro Swarm Launcher This is the most survivable fit I could make with the Incubus, the lack of powergrid on a powergrid heavy tank was extremely limiting. Even without the hardener the best I could achieve was 6 Shots from a proto swarm launcher, even with 130 HP/s repair rate. The hardener effectively juiced up the repairers ability to rep through damage, turning the Incubus into a Active Tanker. The extra up time also meant I had the opportunity to stay longer. However the lack of survivability meant that as soon as I was hit by a PRO Swarm Launcher I would have to start making preparations to leave the area. I spent a lot of time with this dropship at below 60% health making very susceptible to a forge gunner or rail turret. In total I lost 3 of these dropships, 1 to another missile turret. 1 to a forge gun, who shot me while I was engaging a Swarmer and a damage modded railgun. It is worth pointing out that the python would have been equally susceptible to the railgun turret. Conclusion: Python is absolutely fine, if you actually use the shield hardener (it is there for a reason), you will find the lower numbers of the shields to be more than sufficent. The Incubus on the other hand is actually worse of by comparison while it may be able make better passive builds (with no active modules) the survivability simply doesn't stack up. The both dropships would instea benefit from a Powergrid buff in order to allow them to fit better modules, equivalent to an Advanced Powergrid Expansion Unit. Well, on my incubus I never needed hp mods...and wow 4 shots is uh....pretty low for a vehicle especially vs lock on, hate to see 2 swarms, and a 24s hardener is just annoying, who thought it was a good idea to make long cooldown short duration? Incubuses always require HP mods, you need to be close as damn it to 3000 armour and have a hardener or have over 3200 to be anything near survivable. The Incubus is especially weak to well every form of AV due to the damage profile. 4 swarms may not seem like a lot, but this means the user has to reload at least once to actually finish you off. Assuming you start to move out of his range by the second volley you are effectively invincible. Pair this with your hardener boosting you upto require more than the Amount of Rounds a swarmer will carry, it's not difficult to see the python does not need this buff. The maths proves it. Like I said though on both Dropships the Powergrid is a severly limiting factor, it's less of a concern for the python since it tanks with high slots, but it's unbelievable crippling to the Incubus.[/quote] Oh, but indeed it does. And I have brought up a lock on range buff...and the myron needs it too. And I never used an hp mod on my incubus... NOW, stop acting like swarms are the only av in this game. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 163	Posted - 2014.08.01 02:50:00 - [65] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Monkey MAC Monkey MAC wrote: JRleo jr wrote: How about you go out in the field against proto av and tell me how much % of your hp is taken? And pythons have to fit a heavy advanced extender just to survive, hardly fair. I did, yes you do need an extender to stand upto AV I would find difficult to believe they would give vehicles that are survivable with purely their base eHP that would be overpowered to then give them the further option of fitting more eHP. I have tested both and from my opinion both need something other than a straight eHP buff. The most survivable fits I found Python 1x ADV Heavy Shield Extender 1x STD Shield Hardener 1x STD Light Shield Booster 1x PRO PG Expansion Unit 1x ADV AT-1 Missile Launcher Shields: 2555 Armour: 950 Survivability: 4 Shots - PRO Swarm Launcher Survivability (Including Shield Booster) 5 Shots - PRO Swarm Launcher Survivability (Including Shield Hardener) 9 Shots - PRO Swarm Launcher Survivability (Including Shield Hardener + Shield Booster) 12 Shots - PRO Swarm Launcher With this fit I was free to rain terror from the skies, provided I activated my Hardener at the correct time only a Breach Forge gun would drop my eHP significantly enough for me to even bother using any form of evasive manoeuvres. With relevant skills my hardener often lasted much longer than was necessary. Of the matches I played with this fit, only one of them actually required me to bug out from the airspace before my hardener ran out. I also bypassed the longer cooldown of the standard modules by ensuring I always had 2 fits in lieu, In total I lost just one of these dropships to a large Missile Turret who ganked me before I could react to the threat. Incubus Shields: 950 Armour: 2747 1x Afterburner 1x STD Armour Hardener 1x PRO Heavy Armour Repairer 1x ADV 60mm Armour Plates 1x ADV Particle Cannon Railgun Survivability: 3 Shots - PRO Swarm Launcher Survivabilty: (Including Armour Repair) 4 Shots - PRO Swarm Launcher Survivability:(Including Armour Hardener) 5 Shots - PRO Swarm Launcher Survivability:(Including Armour Hardener + Armour Repairer) 7 Shots - Pro Swarm Launcher This is the most survivable fit I could make with the Incubus, the lack of powergrid on a powergrid heavy tank was extremely limiting. Even without the hardener the best I could achieve was 6 Shots from a proto swarm launcher, even with 130 HP/s repair rate. The hardener effectively juiced up the repairers ability to rep through damage, turning the Incubus into a Active Tanker. The extra up time also meant I had the opportunity to stay longer. However the lack of survivability meant that as soon as I was hit by a PRO Swarm Launcher I would have to start making preparations to leave the area. I spent a lot of time with this dropship at below 60% health making very susceptible to a forge gunner or rail turret. In total I lost 3 of these dropships, 1 to another missile turret. 1 to a forge gun, who shot me while I was engaging a Swarmer and a damage modded railgun. It is worth pointing out that the python would have been equally susceptible to the railgun turret. Conclusion: Python is absolutely fine, if you actually use the shield hardener (it is there for a reason), you will find the lower numbers of the shields to be more than sufficent. The Incubus on the other hand is actually worse of by comparison while it may be able make better passive builds (with no active modules) the survivability simply doesn't stack up. The both dropships would instea benefit from a Powergrid buff in order to allow them to fit better modules, equivalent to an Advanced Powergrid Expansion Unit. Well, on my incubus I never needed hp mods...and wow 4 shots is uh....pretty low for a vehicle especially vs lock on, hate to see 2 swarms, and a 24s hardener is just annoying, who thought it was a good idea to make long cooldown short duration? Incubuses always require HP mods, you need to be close as damn it to 3000 armour and have a hardener or have over 3200 to be anything near survivable. The Incubus is especially weak to well every form of AV due to the damage profile. 4 swarms may not seem like a lot, but this means the user has to reload at least once to actually finish you off. Assuming you start to move out of his range by the second volley you are effectively invincible. Pair this with your hardener boosting you upto require more than the Amount of Rounds a swarmer will carry, it's not difficult to see the python does not need this buff. The maths proves it. Like I said though on both Dropships the Powergrid is a severly limiting factor, it's less of a concern for the python since it tanks with high slots, but it's unbelievable crippling to the Incubus. Oh, but indeed it does. And I have brought up a lock on range buff...and the myron needs it too. And I never used an hp mod on my incubus... NOW, stop acting like swarms are the only av in this game.[/quote wrote: A lock-on range buff will give little to no benifit, unless pilots just stop as soon as they reach 160m and just watch you from their, Swarms need a whole different set of performance changes, ones that will make them more skill based as well as more effective Anti-Air. Congratulations what do you want a medal? You can tell me till your blue in the face it makes no bearing on the maths. The maths shows that even with a Heavy Armour Plate the Incubus can't tank as well as a Hardened Python. So please give it up with annecdotes and opinions they don't mean anything. I'm not acting like Swarms are the only AV, but Plasma Cannons don't take out Dropships. Futhermore we are in a thread discussing swarms and dropships. Finally Swarms have better DPS than forge guns, so I assume that Swarm Launchers are the more important AV weapon to consider when balancing. I can see why they're getting nerfed then. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 165	Posted - 2014.08.01 20:48:00 - [66] - Quote Monkey MAC Monkey MAC wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: [quote=JRleo jr wrote: Incubuses always require HP mods, you need to be close as damn it to 3000 armour and have a hardener or have over 3200 to be anything near survivable. The Incubus is especially weak to well every form of AV due to the damage profile. 4 swarms may not seem like a lot, but this means the user has to reload at least once to actually finish you off. Assuming you start to move out of his range by the second volley you are effectively invincible. Pair this with your hardener boosting you upto require more than the Amount of Rounds a swarmer will carry, it's not difficult to see the python does not need this buff. The maths proves it. Like I said though on both Dropships the Powergrid is a severly limiting factor, it's less of a concern for the python since it tanks with high slots, but it's unbelievable crippling to the Incubus. Oh, but indeed it does. And I have brought up a lock on range buff...and the myron needs it too. And I never used an hp mod on my incubus... NOW, stop acting like swarms are the only av in this game. A lock-on range buff will give little to no benifit, unless pilots just stop as soon as they reach 160m and just watch you from their, Swarms need a whole different set of performance changes, ones that will make them more skill based as well as more effective Anti-Air. Congratulations what do you want a medal? You can tell me till your blue in the face it makes no bearing on the maths. The maths shows that even with a Heavy Armour Plate the Incubus can't tank as well as a Hardened Python. So please give it up with annecdotes and opinions they don't mean anything. I'm not acting like Swarms are the only AV, but Plasma Cannons don't take out Dropships. Futhermore we are in a thread discussing swarms and dropships. Finally Swarms have better DPS than forge guns, so I assume that Swarm Launchers are the more important AV weapon to consider when balancing. I can see why they're getting nerfed then. Yeah, there is nothing wrong with a little nerf to our maximum achievable. Very few players, even dedicated AVers are gonna gonna go all out with. Pro Minmando + Damage Mods + Profciency + Speacilist Swarm Launcher We simply sacrifice too much for that kind of power. Furthermore it stops fits like that 2 shotting most dropships, considering the first volley usually hits unannounced and the second is already in the air, it's not exactly fair. But you'll I never disagreed with that nerf since STD amd ADV are being made much more competitive/competent their is no longer a need to run all out Proto as an AVer in pub matches just to be effective. The problem I have is that the Assault Dropships simply don't need this proposes buff yet, I won't comment on the Transport Dropships since I don't fly them regularly, but I have always been of the mind that Transport vehicles should have the best tank in the game but the worst offensive capabilities. 500 extra shields to the python is a 20% boost to maximum eHP, it survivability with a passive build (one without active modules) would surpass the Incubus considerably. Futhermore under a Hardener your looking at almost invincible fits. I'm not saying they need a nerf, but for the love of god, they most certainly do not need a buff right now either.[/quote] Well, swarms aren't the only av...so forges and rails wreck pythons...and incubus has some shields to cover them and no dekay to regen, helps a tad. And even with a hardener, trust me the python will be far from invincible. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 165	Posted - 2014.08.01 22:03:00 - [67] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Temias Mercurial wrote: Atiim wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Erm, no thank you. I spent a whole day testing the python, and have had past experiences with myrons, they need it, May I see the video and statistics behind this conclusion, or are we trying to use invalid anecdotes again? How about flying a Python yourself and seeing the other side of the coin... the argument of AV and dropships is getting so annoying when people are not aware of the perspective of the other player. I have done both. All an ads needs is an afterburner and it can get clear of AV in seconds. If you decide to stay in an area where av is you deserve to be blown up. Every tim people bring up an afterburner I'm just going to ignore thier posts, so stop saying "but afterburner herp derp" Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 167	Posted - 2014.08.01 22:55:00 - [68] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Temias Mercurial wrote: Atiim wrote: JRleo jr wrote: May I see the video and statistics behind this conclusion, or are we trying to use invalid anecdotes again? How about flying a Python yourself and seeing the other side of the coin... the argument of AV and dropships is getting so annoying when people are not aware of the perspective of the other player. I have done both. All an ads needs is an afterburner and it can get clear of AV in seconds. If you decide to stay in an area where av is you deserve to be blown up. Every tim people bring up an afterburner I'm just going to ignore thier posts, so stop saying "but afterburner herp derp" Why? because you think a DS should be able to tank as much as a tank? It can fly for heavens sake, you can go anywhere on the map and avoid any AV so easily. Dropships can't tank like an hav, thier weak spot is easier to hit and an incubus weakspot is so easy to hit, not all dropships use an ab, nor should you balance av based on 1 module. And av can attack us anytime before we have our hardeners up if we have one fitted. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 167	Posted - 2014.08.01 23:04:00 - [69] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: AV cant hit you whenever though, the furthest away any AV weapon can reach is 300m and thats just the forge gun. and AV isnt balanced around one module, fit a booster/extender, hardener and afterburner and see how often you die if get the hell out of an area when AV shoots you. Um you do realize that we can't see av unless it's around 75m, right? They can easily surprise any airborne vehicle, and swarms and forges knock around the python so damm much. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 167	Posted - 2014.08.01 23:06:00 - [70] - Quote Atiim wrote: Temias Mercurial wrote: How about flying a Python yourself and seeing the other side of the coin... the argument of AV and dropships is getting so annoying when people are not aware of the perspective of the other player. I've been operating Pythons and Incubi for months now, and I'm well aware of the V/AV scene from the pilot's perspective. And from my experience, I can honestly tell you that the Python's ability to easily evade AV within a very short period of time, coupled with the RoF and DPS the turrets have with ADS Operation means that it needs no HP buff. No role in the game should ever have all 3 attributes of combat (being 'Tank', Speed, and DPS). Not all ships use an ab. Dropships don't go from 0 to 75 instantly, I've seen swarms, they are garunteed at least 2 hits, if you are not moving so fast of course. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.

JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 167	Posted - 2014.08.01 23:07:00 - [71] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: AV cant hit you whenever though, the furthest away any AV weapon can reach is 300m and thats just the forge gun. and AV isnt balanced around one module, fit a booster/extender, hardener and afterburner and see how often you die if get the hell out of an area when AV shoots you. Um you do realize that we can't see av unless it's around 75m, right? They can easily surprise any airborne vehicle, and swarms and forges knock around the python so damm much. Dont talk crap because yes you can see it, i know you can. If they are firing behind you thats a different story and maybe why you cant see it Ahaha, funny, I guess that's why I get hit by a random forge, and if I evade since I know his general location, I can activate my hard and locate him, and if he's mlt or I try to evade I can take him out, proto forge usually is a bad idea though. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 167	Posted - 2014.08.01 23:15:00 - [72] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: AV cant hit you whenever though, the furthest away any AV weapon can reach is 300m and thats just the forge gun. and AV isnt balanced around one module, fit a booster/extender, hardener and afterburner and see how often you die if get the hell out of an area when AV shoots you. Um you do realize that we can't see av unless it's around 75m, right? They can easily surprise any airborne vehicle, and swarms and forges knock around the python so damm much. Dont talk crap because yes you can see it, i know you can. If they are firing behind you thats a different story and maybe why you cant see it Ahaha, funny, I guess that's why I get hit by a random forge, and if I evade since I know his general location, I can activate my hard and locate him, and if he's mlt or I try to evade I can take him out, proto forge usually is a bad idea though. So then what is your argument? you say you cant see them but know where they are and evade. Also the fact that you get knocked about by explosions is to do with a little thing called physics. it causes impact which is going to make you move so dont complain about it, just learn to fly properly. Haha, wow, you're funny, learn to fly? Haha, I can avoid forges without an ab if I know what I'm doingnand am far enough. And proto forges even with a hard wrecks the python, and python gets thrown back when trying to hover which is very annoying. And I mean I don't know thier location is until after he fires, due to the way air vehicles are. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 167	Posted - 2014.08.01 23:19:00 - [73] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: so you want to buff ADSs becuase you choose to not use an afterburner and wonder why AV can still hit you. Am i about right? cos that is what it seems like Wow, you are waay off. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 167	Posted - 2014.08.01 23:23:00 - [74] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: So then whats the problem you have? cos, as far as im aware, there isnt one. The python just needs a small buff and this is it. And fyi, ads will never be as good as a tank, due to higher skill required to operate a ads property, not sp, and the knockback effect, sometimes it's real bad, or atleast not with most people. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 167	Posted - 2014.08.02 01:14:00 - [75] - Quote Temias Mercurial wrote: I think that what people are forgetting is that even thought a Python may have near tank health, it has a lower natural resistance than a tank has, so will take more damage than a tank... so it's not as formidable anyway. Key word is near, like a sica, that is more (can't find correct spelling) septimal to damage, thrusters are easier to hit than back of gunlogi I think, can be shot from anywhere because it's an air vehicle, and not as much cpu and pg. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 168	Posted - 2014.08.02 06:30:00 - [76] - Quote Atiim wrote: Temias Mercurial wrote: so it's not as formidable anyway. 500.5HP of Damage per shot 536.25 RPM 4,473 DPS If you don't find this to be formidable, then arguing with you is pointless as you clearly lack credibility. Swarms aren't the only av atiim, nor should they be as powerful as you want them to be. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.